no, možno by sa hodilo doplniť nejaké info o tej situácii, aby si to neškatuľkoval ako gambling: V tej chvíli súper raisoval z UTG s Q3 3xBB (blindy boli 1200/600), čiže na 3600. Ja som mal okolo 8000 chipsov, takže akú inú variantu som mal, okrem fold alebo allin? Myslím, že žiadnu. ak o nejakej vieš, sem s ňou, veľmi rád sa poučím a vyhnem sa gamblingu s KK:)

Ja len, aby ste ma chapali, ze preco som tuto temu zalozil. :-)
Islo mi len o to, sa vyzalovat, ze ci mi toto robia herne naschval alebo co, ked u ostatnych vidim, ze to tak nefunguje a dojdu im zaradom aj tri pekne ruky a vyhraju s nimi tri hry.
Skratka, mne sa deje opak pravidelne. Posledny priklad - MTT na PS. Dostal som 22, ale v rozpore s konvencnym sposobom hry shortstacka som sa rozhodol limpnut. Aj tak cely turnaj siel na hovno, karty nechodili a z 15 hier, ktorych som sa zucastnil, ma flopy komplet minali alebo boli scary a superi hrali agresivne. Raz som vyhral mensi pot odstrasenim supera all-inom, inak nic.
Takze ta partia s 22:

P****Stars Game #16750949816: Tournament #84460421, $5.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2008/04/15 - 14:30:15 (ET) Table '84460421 285' 9-max Seat #9 is the button Seat 1: jplunkett (5885 in chips) Seat 2: Genetics23 (2840 in chips) Seat 3: mgdrunen1984 (6840 in chips) Seat 4: thebigg59 (8470 in chips) Seat 5: Pepi_SK (1675 in chips) Seat 6: 1NONAME1 (15840 in chips) Seat 7: stephen11776 (5700 in chips) Seat 8: viennaman59 (5270 in chips) Seat 9: Yevgeni K (1990 in chips)
jplunkett: posts small blind 100
Genetics23: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Pepi_SK [2d 2s]
mgdrunen1984: folds
thebigg59: folds
steve stash [observer] said, "56"
Pepi_SK: calls 200
steve stash [observer] said, "?"
1NONAME1: folds
jplunkett said, "AK"
stephen11776: calls 200
viennaman59: folds
Yevgeni K: folds
1NONAME1 said, "me??"
jplunkett: calls 100
Genetics23: checks
*** FLOP *** [6d 4c 2h]
1NONAME1 said, "8 8"
jplunkett: checks
Genetics23: checks
Pepi_SK: checks
stephen11776: checks
*** TURN *** [6d 4c 2h] [8s]
jplunkett: checks
Genetics23: checks
steve stash [observer] said, "jp donk"
Pepi_SK: bets 400
stephen11776: folds
jplunkett: folds
Genetics23: calls 400
*** RIVER *** [6d 4c 2h 8s] [8c]
Genetics23: checks
Pepi_SK: bets 400
Genetics23: folds
Pepi_SK collected 1600 from pot
Pepi_SK: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1600 | Rake 0
Board [6d 4c 2h 8s 8c]
Seat 1: jplunkett (small blind) folded on the Turn Seat 2: Genetics23 (big blind) folded on the River Seat 3: mgdrunen1984 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: thebigg59 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: Pepi_SK collected (1600) Seat 6: 1NONAME1 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 7: stephen11776 folded on the Turn Seat 8: viennaman59 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: Yevgeni K (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Hned na to som dostal TT a radsej som len limpol (v sulade s mojimi skusenostami, ze aj tak ma to ojebe). A nizsie vidite, ako to dopadlo:

P****Stars Game #16750977196: Tournament #84460421, $5.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2008/04/15 - 14:31:28 (ET) Table '84460421 285' 9-max Seat #1 is the button Seat 1: jplunkett (5685 in chips) Seat 2: Genetics23 (2240 in chips) Seat 3: mgdrunen1984 (6840 in chips) Seat 4: thebigg59 (8470 in chips) Seat 5: Pepi_SK (2675 in chips) Seat 6: 1NONAME1 (15840 in chips) Seat 7: stephen11776 (5500 in chips) Seat 8: viennaman59 (5270 in chips) Seat 9: Yevgeni K (1990 in chips)
Genetics23: posts small blind 100
mgdrunen1984: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Pepi_SK [Th Tc]
thebigg59: folds
Pepi_SK: calls 200
1NONAME1: raises 400 to 600
stephen11776: folds
viennaman59: calls 600
Yevgeni K: folds
jplunkett: folds
Genetics23: folds
mgdrunen1984: folds
Pepi_SK: raises 2075 to 2675 and is all-in
1NONAME1: calls 2075
viennaman59: calls 2075
*** FLOP *** [3c 9s Jh]
1NONAME1: checks
viennaman59: bets 2595 and is all-in
1NONAME1: folds
*** TURN *** [3c 9s Jh] [Kd]
*** RIVER *** [3c 9s Jh Kd] [8d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Pepi_SK: shows [Th Tc] (a pair of Tens)
viennaman59: shows [9d 9h] (three of a kind, Nines)
viennaman59 collected 8325 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 8325 | Rake 0
Board [3c 9s Jh Kd 8d]
Seat 1: jplunkett (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: Genetics23 (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 3: mgdrunen1984 (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 4: thebigg59 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: Pepi_SK showed [Th Tc] and lost with a pair of Tens Seat 6: 1NONAME1 folded on the Flop Seat 7: stephen11776 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 8: viennaman59 showed [9d 9h] and won (8325) with three of a kind, Nines Seat 9: Yevgeni K folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Viem, ze aj keby som dal raise 3-4xBB, tak minimalne ten s 99 ma dorovna. Neviem, ci by uverili aj mojmu all-inu. Jeden z tych dvoch by to na mna aj tak skusil. Takze znovu mi len vychadza, ze som tie TT mal zahodit. Jednoducho asi nemam stastie na vytazne snury v turnajoch ako niektori. :-(

to kvoli comu si dal allin s TT?

aj s 2000 chipmi si mohol este hrat dalej po zlom flope.

nechapem, preco sa tu ludia boja checkovat, akokeby to bola hanba alebo co. a pritom to je fantasticky nastroj, lebo nic ine nedokaze zmiatnut supera viac ako check a nasledne reraise.

No 2000chips by bolo akurat 10xBB, takze by som bol cca. tam, kde som bol pred tou partiou s 22 - shortstack. Dalsiu hru by som hral z BB a pri tom, jak mi chodili karty, tak neviem, ci by mi uz prislo daco hratelne. Navyse, kazdu chvilu by siel hore level a uz by sa platilo aj ante. Takze som chcel udriet dokial som este pre superov s mojim poctom nebezpecny (mohol som mat predsa set J - to som prezentoval all-inom) a bud zvysit svoj pocet chipov a hrat poker, abo sa znova trapit jak shortstack. Netvrdim ale, ze to bolo spravne rozhodnutie, co sa koniec-koncov aj ukazalo. Taketo prehry sa mi ale stali aj s AA a dakomu, kto mi neuveril handu s dorovnal s nicim, dosla haluzna postupka, set, atd.

si to zahral podla mna vyborne,na tej urovni blindov uz cakat na nieco lepsie ako TT nema vyznam,chcel si nalakat niekoho na raise aby si ho mohol reraisnut do all inu a bud zobrat jeho navysenie alebo zdablovat
podarilo sa ti dostat do all inu hraca z horsou rukou takze uplne super
tuto nema vyznam cakat na flop,v kazdej prirucke sa docitas,ze ak mas menej ako 10BB,na Pokerstrategy dokonca pisu 14BB,tak ina akcia ako all in alebo fold nema miesto

nedavno som aml strasne debilnu partiu.......prva hra v turnaji.....na ruke AA...typek predomnou navysil na 450 (stratovne chipz 1500)....tak som ho dal AIPF....flop priniesol 28A.....hovorim si super mam to iste....na turn 10....hovorim si no este J ho zachrani a hadajte co doslo na river.... objavil sa tam J a ja som skoro skolaboval...........najviac ma sere ze nehcem verit na to ze stastie tvori viac ako 50% ale taketo partie ma presvedcuju o tom ze to stastie hra obrovsku rolu

ze ty chodis s pokrovou priruckou v ruke aj na zachod ? lol

pochop uz jedno, ze v priruckach ti konkretnu situaciu nerozoberaju, mas len vseobecne postupy.

TT je velmi zradna ruka. a ked su predomnou uz dvaja v alline, tak ja ju zahadzujem.

v pepiho pripade dvaja betli BB pred nim, musel predpokladat , ze maju silne ruky. tak preco sa oberat o moznost pozriet si flop a nie gamblovat?

allin mohol predsa dat kludne aj po akomkolvek flope, vysledok by bol ten isty ako pred flopom.

Klames sam seba a neprijimas pokrovu realitu. Ak chces byt dobry, tak musis pochopit, ze pises bludy.

Mas uplne rovnako stastia ako ostatni, len sa to neprejavuje hned, ale trochu dlhodobo... dari sa aj tebe, ale vtedy to nevnimas... ked budes hrat dlhsie, pochopis... AKo dlho hras? Kolko turnajov mas odohratych?

"allin mohol predsa dat kludne aj po akomkolvek flope, vysledok by bol ten isty ako pred flopom."

Toto je omyl, ktory tu vytrvalo opakujes. Toto proste nie je pravdy, lebo AI PF ma skoro vzdy nejaku FE...

Konkretne tu, prvy mohol mat AJ, druhy KQ... po Pepiho alline by prvy zavolal, druhy mozno foldol... tak by mal proti sebe 2 overcards, a nie 4... s TT pri tychto stackoch proste nechces na flope vestit z gule, ci to K, Q, alebo J je prave ta karta, co super ma... AIPF bol OK

to chipfeeder - cital si vobec niekedynejake strategie ?..ako vies, ze tam najdes len vseobecne postupy ?..su tam xy roznych prikladov a ked nie, existuje forum, kde mozes svoje ruky rozdiskutovat.
to pepi - pri stole mas dalsich 9 ludi, dlhodobo sa faktor stastia musi rovnomerne rozdelit, tym padom by si mal mat lucky kazdy 10-ty krat, preto sa Ti zda, ze stale si len Ty unlucky. Raz Ta uluckuje jeden super a potom zas iny, nie stale ten isty, to je ten rozdiel. Na kazdeho musi dlhodobo faktor stastia pripadnut rovnakym dielom, preto ludia maju pocit, ze luck maju len zriedkavo a unluck naopak velmi casto. Aspon tak to vidim ja :)